Exploring Mental Health and UX Design with Jennifer Wong

Jennifer Wong is the Founder of a UX design boot camp called Product Design Fam and the Co-Founder/CEO of Empathie, an app dedicated to empower racial minorities through videos and activities. Empathie's goal is to help navigate through life situations involving family, day-to-day interactions, self-compassion, and other stresses.

We got the chance to discuss with Jennifer about the importance of mental health and connecting it to cultural background. She explained a little further about how Empathie works and where the idea behind it came from.

This Slogging thread by Abeer, Jennifer Wong, Giovanni Martorella, Limarc Ambalina, Mónica Freitas, Pamela Liang, Julia Zhang, Sara Pinto, Hung Le Ngoc and Drone Warfare occurred in slogging's official #amas channel, and has been edited for readability.

AbeerApr 7, 2022, 7:30 PM

Hey @channel, please join me in welcoming our next AMA guest, Jennifer Wong (ex Dropbox Product Design) is the co-founder of Empathie, a learning app that empowers racial minorities to feel balanced in their everyday lives through bite-sized videos and activities. She is a founder of a UX design boot camp called Product Design Fam.

Please feel free to ask Jennifer anything about:

AbeerApr 7, 2022, 7:31 PM

Hey there! It’s great to have you here! Can you start by telling us a bit about yourself, your background, and Empathie?

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:45 PM

Hi!

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:45 PM

Thanks for having me :)

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:46 PM

I got into design by doing a non-profit for foster care children. I had no idea what I was going to do after college, as I was a Sociology major, but I followed my heart anyways

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:47 PM

I had to make my own logo and website! I took an intro to UX course to build an intuitive website. From there, I realized I wanted to pursue a career in UX design

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:48 PM

I've had an extensive history of volunteering so design was super aligned with my values! Empathy and inclusivity are important to me, and those are so central to design

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:48 PM

I spent some years working in corporate design — working in e-commerce, construction management software, and then to Dropbox!

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:49 PM

At some point, I remember thinking, why is social impact a hobby? What if it could be a full-time career? So I applied to UC Berkeley, where I'm a grad student, for the Master of Design program

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:50 PM

Where I wanted to focus on social innovation and social good — with the hopes of co-founding a startup sometime after.

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:50 PM

Last semester, Empathie started as a class project and I decided to take it further!

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:51 PM

Empathie is a self-guided learning app that teaches you how to navigate life situations involving family, day-to-day interactions, self-compassion, and other stresses. We add a perspective that’s inclusive of your culture. Our goal is to empower you to feel balanced in your everyday life :)

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:51 PM

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 7:51 PM

I'm the CEO/co-founder

AbeerApr 7, 2022, 7:59 PM

Wow. That’s an inspiring journey! I’m sure our readers will have a lot of questions for you!

Giovanni MartorellaApr 7, 2022, 8:15 PM

Hey, hope you're good and safe. As a fellow designer, I understand completely with being empathetic toward individuals from all walks of life. What brought you to creating this app and what researched you did that aligned to the problem you found in making this app. I'm also in a company, not a startup but something small to bring STEM to kids :face_with_hand_over_mouth: 😬. Peace and Love!! :call_me_hand: ✌

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 10:23 PM

Hi!!

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 10:27 PM

For me, I grew up with a pretty turbulent upbringing and that affected the way I viewed relationships, navigated the world, and my behaviors in general. What really transformed my negative thoughts and patterns was seeking out different forms of support — books, therapy, etc. I learned a ton from books! For example, I read the 5 Love Languages and that helped me understand the disconnect between how I was perceiving things, where my own needs stemmed from, and how to better communicate with other people. It was really powerful for me to learn and apply the skills to my life, and I wish for others to experience what I did :)

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 10:29 PM

But a lot of the resources out there aren't targeted at racial minorities. Online media, forums, etc., and there aren't many racial minority therapists or therapy isn't always affordable, it can be super time-consuming to go through the process of finding someone. So, I created Empathie to make mental wellness support more easily accessible but also deliver quality care by making wellness support extra tailored to the individual.

Giovanni MartorellaApr 7, 2022, 10:40 PM

Interesting approach on that. Giving more support and care to non-white individuals is important, especially for mental health. Being more inclusive with an app like this is just a small step for something grand overall. Since releasing the app to small groups starting the Asian Americans what have you learned from users using the app? Have they seen improvements over time with their daily life and relationships? Hopefully, they did. Keep up the great work. :call_me_hand:

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 11:40 PM

We eventually want to reach other underrepresented folks and also non-minority folks too! Just taking a different approach

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 11:41 PM

We haven't launched the official app yet or any betas, but we have been doing some proof of concept testing. Yes, there has been improvement! But, mental wellness is hard to work on for anyone, so we're working on making that process more interactive, engaging, and doable. Lightweight as possible

Jennifer WongApr 7, 2022, 11:41 PM

Thanks!

Giovanni MartorellaApr 7, 2022, 11:53 PM

Good approach

Limarc AmbalinaApr 8, 2022, 2:58 AM

Hi Jennifer thanks for joining us!!!

Limarc AmbalinaApr 8, 2022, 2:59 AM

Mental wellness is so important. So I appreciate the work you do.

Limarc AmbalinaApr 8, 2022, 2:59 AM

How does Empathie differentiate itself from Headspace, calm app, and others in a similar space?

Mónica FreitasApr 8, 2022, 9:39 AM

Hi!
Great to have you with us!
Mental health was always as a big interest of mine and I find your app really fascinating. Do you tackle mental wellness overall or do you have strategies for specific concerns (for example, anxiety, eating disorders, depression, etc)?

Jennifer WongApr 8, 2022, 10:18 AM

Hi, Limarc Ambalina! For headspace and calm, it's specific to meditation versus mental wellness. Also for other apps, it's more focused on generalized mental wellness versus focusing on culturally specific issues. Culture has a lot to do with how we navigate the world, our behaviors, and our thought patterns. So, rather than taking a one-size-fits-all approach, we want to be more targeted about the advice. I'd say those are the biggest differences!

Jennifer WongApr 8, 2022, 10:21 AM

Hi, Monica! Most of the time, I think about where my behaviors are coming from because it helps me be more forgiving towards myself and also just puts everything into perspective. For example, I have an anxious-avoidant attachment style, which has a lot to do with my turbulent upbringing where I didn't get secure love. So, I know that if I behave I'm anxious ways in relationships, I remind myself that everything is okay. I am worrying in a certain way because of my past. Or, if I have negative thoughts about myself, I remind myself that it's because of the way that I was criticized and it's not because I'm a terrible person. So I like to think about where my behaviors come from so I know why the patterns keep appearing. Then, I reframe and remind myself that these behaviors are from the past.

Jennifer WongApr 8, 2022, 10:23 AM

Monica, when it comes to depression, I know that seeing a lot of friends really helps so when I start feeling depressed, I'll make a ton of plans to reconnect with friends! It always seems to do the trick. I get energized a lot by being with people, as I'm 93% extroverted according to Meyer's Brigg test!

Jennifer WongApr 8, 2022, 10:25 AM

Mónica Freitas depending on what it is I'm dealing with, there'll be a different strategy. I'm happy that I have strategies in the first place, but it takes hard work to be self-aware! And it takes practice to apply certain skills to certain situations. The more we practice, the better we get 💪

Pamela LiangApr 8, 2022, 5:48 PM

Hey Jennifer. I think a culture-focused mental wellness service has really been missing so I think it’s great that you’re launching Empathie. What are your plans for normalizing mental healthcare?

Jennifer WongApr 8, 2022, 8:42 PM

Hi!!! My approach at the moment is to make things feel less clinical and more approachable. Many people shy away from the words "mental health," but we all talk about it without actually using those words. There's a way to make it more conversational. You don't need to be diagnosed with anxiety and/or depression to think about how to improve your well-being. It's having people come out with their human stories. Make it relatable. Make it human. Because mental wellness really is a part of being human!

Julia ZhangApr 9, 2022, 4:06 AM

Hi ! I think Empathie is great idea! As an Asian American I've definitely had a cultural disconnect with my therapists. As a fellow UX Designer I wanted to know how your team is providing a top notch user experience. Thank you!

Jennifer WongApr 9, 2022, 4:50 AM

Hi, Julia Zhang !! For one, we are making sure that the topics people are learning are related to our user research. For example, pressure to meet parents’ expectations. These issues are tough to navigate though, so we are working on providing learning that's bite-sized and less emotionally draining. Adding written summaries that come in the form of bullet points or chunking out the videos we provide. It all comes back to our research and talking to our target demographics!

Jennifer WongApr 9, 2022, 4:52 AM

Thanks, Julia Zhang !

Julia ZhangApr 9, 2022, 4:56 AM

That sounds wonderful! It's clear to me that your team put a long of care and work into this. I can't wait for the launch!

Sara PintoApr 9, 2022, 1:32 PM

Hey ! Glad to have you with us. I love the concept of making mental wellness more achievable. What's the next step for inclusivity and mental health on your app?

Hung Le NgocApr 10, 2022, 5:13 PM

Hello . I am curious if you have noticed any mental health trends with Asian Americans. I am curious as to if it aligns with my own experiences. Thank you.

Drone WarfareApr 11, 2022, 1:01 PM

Hi ! Great app idea. It's a space that's ripe with opportunity. Does the app consist of mainly prerecorded videos and solo activities? Is there or will there be any live sessions or interactive group activities?

Jennifer WongApr 11, 2022, 2:21 PM

Sara Pinto For now, the next steps are to continue learning to figure out what's needed to keep people accountable in the easiest way possible. More and more research!

Jennifer WongApr 11, 2022, 2:23 PM

Hung Le Ngoc Hi! Many experience stigma towards mental health, so they might not be as open to seeking out support. Common trends are having negative self talk or stress from family pressures in regards to Asian upbringing. So, we know to focus on those areas!

Jennifer WongApr 11, 2022, 2:25 PM

Drone Warfare For low the concept is mainly self-guided, but we are still in the learning phase, so we are open to other ideas! Do you have any thoughts to share about possibly having group activities or live sessions?

AbeerApr 11, 2022, 8:08 PM

Thank you for all the fantastic answers! It was absolutely wonderful having you here. Before we wrap up this AMA, do you have any final thoughts, closing remarks, or anything you’d like to promote to our readers?

Jennifer WongApr 11, 2022, 8:13 PM

Thanks for having me!!

For Empathie, we're having free early access to our app (launch date is TBD later in the year). You can sign up at !

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If you're interested in contributing in any way, please feel free to reach out at

You can also connect with me on LinkedIn @

Giovanni MartorellaApr 11, 2022, 8:47 PM

thank you! Keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing the app for great things for people.